tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post5883223330243713826..comments2015-02-26T20:41:36.069-08:00Comments on Jake Care's Gamebooks: Classifying and Rating LinearityJake Carehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13582796858319515921noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-11926297933957216952012-08-03T08:13:32.434-07:002012-08-03T08:13:32.434-07:00This website of gamebook flow diagrams is very goo...This website of gamebook flow diagrams is very good at showing the different types:<br /><br />http://outspaced.fightingfantasy.org/SVG_Flowcharts/main.html<br /><br />Deathtrap Dungeon (FF6) is very linear whereas Scorpion Swamp (FF8) is free roaming with its interlinked groups of paragraphs. <br /><br />Midnight Rogue (FF29) is convergent until about half way through before it gets linear and the CYOA books are very divergent with short trees.Stuart Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15100216520313336932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-74922652300549175132012-07-25T14:15:49.731-07:002012-07-25T14:15:49.731-07:00Glad you liked the post :) I would have to say Fre...Glad you liked the post :) I would have to say Free Roaming is also my favorite type; I've been meaning to buy your Thornguard, as soon as I set up an account with Lulu. Looks great; you should write more like that!<br />I agree with you on keywords, especially in the Free Roaming and Convergent gamebooks. Keywords help Free Roaming types, (such as Fabled Lands) allow you to have an impact on the world you are exploring. And in convergent types (I would say Bloodbones is Convergent, albeit it does have Free Roaming elements to it) allow your past action to have effect and allow the gamebook to diverge once more even after a bottle necking convergent point (or a "funnel" as the analysis on http://samizdat.cc/cyoa/ would say)Jake Carehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582796858319515921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-58129191401862939682012-07-25T13:51:12.535-07:002012-07-25T13:51:12.535-07:00I just finished reading the analysis. Fantastic st...I just finished reading the analysis. Fantastic stuff; I especially liked how the analysis referred to frequency diagrams showing how likely the reader is to pass by certain pages. Also interesting that the analysis noted that CYOA books became less divergent and more linear throughout the 80s. Bizarre.<br />An excellent analysis. Thank you for pointing it out to me! :)Jake Carehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582796858319515921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-37369253122233768312012-07-25T12:25:45.519-07:002012-07-25T12:25:45.519-07:00I agree that 'slay the wizard' type plots ...I agree that 'slay the wizard' type plots might be difficult to work into a Divergent gamebook, but other plots such as 'escape the X' work well with that type of linearity. Gamebooks that deal with large periods of a character's life are usually written in this style. For example Life's Lottery, and Pretty Little Mistakes are quite Divergent.<br /><br />I find that Give Yourself Goosebumps occasionally uses the "if player does A, there will be an emerald, but if player does B, the room will be empty". But it hasn't been used for any more complex systems, nor is it usually discussed at depth in the gamebook community.<br /><br />It is true that plot is usually more difficult to incorporate; usually the plots are small and don't go into a lot of depth. Reflection on it, I would say there are two ways authors add plot to their Free Roaming gamebooks:<br />A) Do like in Fabled Lands and allow the player to freely decide to go on small quests with plots.<br />B) Have an encompassing plot like in Scorpion Swamp or Escape the Kingdom of Frome. In Scorpion Swamp you have a quest to complete for your master, so once that's done you win. And in Escape the Kingdom of Frome, you're wandering around until you find you way out.<br /><br />I look forwards to seeing your new Divergent gamebooks! And I love your Free Roaming ones, especially Khazan City Chaos.Jake Carehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582796858319515921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-17889204662413968842012-07-25T12:07:41.324-07:002012-07-25T12:07:41.324-07:00Thank you for the feedback! I completely agree abo...Thank you for the feedback! I completely agree about each of the different categories having their own merits, especially depending on what the author was trying to do: indeed the Convergent gamebooks are better for plot, while Free Roaming are better for game-play. Though I thought that Fabled Lands did a decent job in incorporating plots all considered: for example the "righteous king" plot in The War-Torn Kingdom.<br />P.S. if you'd like to try out Divergent gamebooks, any from the series' I mentioned above will do: Give yourself Goosebumps, CYOA, and Pretty Little Mistakes.Jake Carehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582796858319515921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-59979391167425692442012-07-25T03:42:10.887-07:002012-07-25T03:42:10.887-07:00Have you seen this analysis of the old Choose Your...Have you seen this analysis of the old Choose Your Own Adventure books?<br /><br />http://samizdat.cc/cyoa/Justin Hallidayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05856712873509270368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-23270963382461563792012-07-25T00:25:50.767-07:002012-07-25T00:25:50.767-07:00Great post! I'm a big fan of free-roaming book...Great post! I'm a big fan of free-roaming books, but as Stuart said, it's very difficult to properly plot them. Fabled Lands did have an over-arching plot, but it really went on in the background and I never felt particularly involved in it too much. <br /><br />I think have keywords in divergent structures could definitely allow for an organically flowing book, where certain things happen depending on player actions (see Bloodbones and Fabled Lands).Scott Malthousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12028866803584444828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-62896784185114156132012-07-25T00:04:30.653-07:002012-07-25T00:04:30.653-07:00Love the post - generates lots of thought.
I woul...Love the post - generates lots of thought.<br /><br />I would love to create a divergent gamebook where all of the paths actually lead to some kind of successful ending which is pretty tough if the quest is 'slay the wizard' as the wizard can only be in one place. Maybe if you go somewhere at different times? Or if you had to recover one of several items?<br /><br />There's one thing about divergent books (and gamebooks in general) that I've thought about but haven't yet covered and that's how situations could be different based on the player's choices. For example, you could have a dungeon and say that there's an emerald in room A. However, if player does action X, they will find room A to be empty. It raises all kinds of questions, but that's something that is not really used in gamebooks.<br /><br />It is also hard to do a plot in free roaming books as you have said above. Fabled Lands had small plots that involved finding out about them in place A, going to place B, doing X and then returning to place A again. I suppose a free roaming book with a plot would involve every place having something to do with the plot and you manage to move on to some 'secret' location when you have put all of the pieces together.<br /><br />What I'm aiming to do at the moment is to add more divergency to my convergent books.Stuart Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15100216520313336932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8959292737199932260.post-66500054789978562022012-07-24T03:03:06.567-07:002012-07-24T03:03:06.567-07:00I enjoy all these kinds of gamebooks on their own ...I enjoy all these kinds of gamebooks on their own merits (although I don't have much experience of any 'divergent' ones). Linearity does detract from the sense of being in control of your own destiny; however I find the storylines in such books are usually tighter and make more sense. As a player I find that I take satisfaction in finishing such a book because I know I've explored most of what it has to offer and I haven't missed out on anything. Of course the other side of the coin is the lessened replay value. <br /><br />At the other end of the spectrum, free roaming books are great for that 'sandbox' feel where you can go anywhere and do anything - however the storyline usually suffers as a result. In this sense these books are more games than books. I love Fabled Lands but there is something that seems a bit futile about wandering around doing random quests with no real end goal. These books are also more difficult to design in terms of continuity (didn't I already kill this bandit?), although SJ did a pretty good job with Scorpion Swamp.<br /><br />Convergency seems like a good compromise, and I guess this is why I love FF so much. Enough to start my own playthrough blog anyway :)<br /><br />Interesting post, keep it up!Paul Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08261768440591955192noreply@blogger.com